H-E-L-P. Short rows are seriously keeping me up at night.

[averymybaby]

It's hiding the wrap made from the purl side. Every freakin' time, there's a big honking stretched out stitch next to it. I swear I am doing everything "right," I've followed all the videos and looked at all the pictures and I'm doing exactly that down to the letter. But every time, I get that big stretched out stitch. It's not a hole. I had that problem first - I was wrapping the stitch wrong. But I straightened that out, so to speak, and now I'm stuck with this overgrown stitch that doesn't match the tension of the rest of the piece so it actually looks like there are holes where that stitch is.

The wrap I do from the knit side always looks fine. You can barely tell it's there. Which I don't understand because I'm doing it the same way!! Can someone explain why the one from the purl side could be giving me so much trouble?

Here's exactly what I do. I have 2 stitch markers, one at the beginning of my round, and one at halfway. So when I come to a point where I want to do a short row, I knit all the way around to my designated spot, say 1 stitch before the marker at the beginning of my round. I slip, wrap, put that stitch back, turn the work around, and purl back to one stitch before my halfway marker. Slip that purlwise, wrap, put the stitch back on the left needle, turn the work. I knit back towards my beginning round marker. I come to that wrap first, knit it together with the stitch it's wrapping, and it hides fine. Then I continue on the next "row" (in the round), going around until I come to the halfway marker. Pass that, then come to the wrap I made from the purl side. I pick it up with the tip of my needle and knit it with that stitch, EXACTLY like I do the other one. And keep knitting around. Except this last wrap has left a huge stitch next to it, on the right of it. And it is not really indescreet at all. Every time, I think I've done it exactly right, and then I get so disheartened when I see that stretched out stitch!

:help :help :help :help

:bang :bang :bang :bang

This is seriously keeping me up, I got frustrated with a project and went to bed, now I'm back here pleading my case because I couldn't sleep, the short rows were HAUNTING me. I was trying my hardest to figure out what I'm doing wrong but I just can't figure it out - I don't know what's wrong because I THINK I am doing everything right, I'm just missing some stupid little thing.

Admittedly, I'm going a little nuts. :crud: :nut :boggled


ETA The stretched out stitch seems to be 2 rows tall, if that helps.

[margaretcraye]

http://knittingatknoon.com/SRShoulder.mpg

I follow this video the same at each turn then just knit in the wraps and VOILA!


I cannot see them at all....I know where they're at b/c of the slight thickness of the stitch. Try disregarding any complicated concept (*ALL* of the written instructions sounded complicated) and do exactly as this shows when turning to purl and then back to knit.....

Is that right? It seems to work for me....

Blessings~Margie

[averymybaby]

Yeah, that video helped me figure out how to hide the wraps in theory, but she only does the knit-side wrap in that one. It's the other that's giving me trouble.

[margaretcraye]

Try them *both* the same! That's what I do....and it works for me.

[Lauira]

Okay - the two rows tall thing - that is because you are essentially pulling up that stitch from the row below to hide it. Right? Now how tight is that wrap? It make sense that MAYBE if it were tighter that it would be smaller?!?! Talk out loud here, really...

I PROMISE to take pics for you tomorrow so we can compare our hidden (or not so hidden!) wraps. I had the WORST time with that side too, but I seem to have figured it out. No tricks - just messing with tension. I am sure we can figure it out. I may not be the one able to help you though. LOL!

[hunnybumm]

I am working on a pair of pants with short rows and I have just been tightening the stitches and distributing them through my work. I wait until I have knit a row or two above the short row so I have enough room to work. It's a bit of a pain but I can hide them pretty well. I also tried a tighter stitch but I still get a "hole".

Also, when I am doing short rows I am slipping the stitch instead of "wrapping" it, what is the difference? I knit to marker, flip my work, slip 1st stitch, purl to marker, turn work, slip first stitch, knit back. So what is the difference between slipping and wrapping?

[littleturtlemama]

i'll try to convince Dh to take a video of me tonight and I'llpost it in my tutorials :)

[pmcgary]

I found in one of my knitting books instructions for another way to hide turn. I am going to try it on my next pair of pants just to see if it looks any better.

I think the difference that people are getting it b/c the wraps are not the same....one goes around the stitch to the left and one around the stitch to the right. I think Pamela's "rustic" videos were the most helpful to me. I haven't found a decent still of the "hiding of the wraps"....just all the directions for doing the wrap--- which for me has never been the problem. :two

[Lauira]

(WARNING - BIG PICTURES FOR DETAIL)

Okay, here are my wraps in all their glory. Do yours look similar?

Full back view - SR placed every few rows moving in one stitch each time. See them?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7580.jpg

Left side view: (not that they aren't painfully obvious, but I circled them too)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7583.jpg

And the inside of the poopy wraps side. Mine always have bumps. No idea if that is bad or not!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7589.jpg

When I was learning, I wanted close ups really badly just to SEE what they would look like. You know what else helped me? I got knitting from other mamas that had short rows. I am very visual, so SEEING is huge for me.

Whenever I bug Cass about something when I am wondering if I am doing it right, she reminds me that there is more than one way to do things and if it looks good and does the job then it is the right way. So I figure if I like my hidden wraps, then I am doing it right regardless. :)

Here are two other examples of SR by other mamas:

One section of SRs in a group (left side when facing you):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7593.jpg

And SRs placed all in a vertical row (also left side):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7597.jpg

And my left side again:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7586.jpg

There really is more than one way to do a SR. You just need to find what works for you. I hope that helps even a wee bit. :)

[Lauira]

I think the difference that people are getting it b/c the wraps are not the same....one goes around the stitch to the left and one around the stitch to the right. I think Pamela's "rustic" videos were the most helpful to me. I haven't found a decent still of the "hiding of the wraps"....just all the directions for doing the wrap--- which for me has never been the problem. :two

Yup - that is exactly the issue. :) I know we can all figure this out!

[averymybaby]

I think the difference that people are getting it b/c the wraps are not the same....one goes around the stitch to the left and one around the stitch to the right. I think Pamela's "rustic" videos were the most helpful to me. I haven't found a decent still of the "hiding of the wraps"....just all the directions for doing the wrap--- which for me has never been the problem. :two

Yup - that is exactly the issue. :) I know we can all figure this out!


YES. In my twisted craziness at 1 am I think this is what I was trying to get across. This is definitely a big root of the issue!!! So any help here is good!!!

Laura - thank you so much for the big honkin pictures. That's what my knit wraps look like. I can't get my purl wrap to look like that. Sara posted a picture of hers that looks just like what I'm getting - I'll ask her to repost it here.

[Lauira]

Laura - thank you so much for the big honkin pictures. That's what my knit wraps look like. I can't get my purl wrap to look like that. Sara posted a picture of hers that looks just like what I'm getting - I'll ask her to repost it here.

'I saw hers - this is it:

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL571/2724187/5450808/70144382.jpg

I wasn't sure what to tell her as making it tighter didn't help.

Have you tried fidding with the stiches once you get a few rows down? Maybe adjusting them to tighten that one stitch? I wish I could help more. :(

[hunnybumm]

Mine look just like Sara's. I just tighten to stitches after I have knit a few rows above the SR, once I do that they are virtually undetectable. It takes a little time but *shrug* until I figure out what I am doing 'wrong' it works.

[Lauira]

Mine look just like Sara's. I just tighten to stitches after I have knit a few rows above the SR, once I do that they are virtually undetectable. It takes a little time but *shrug* until I figure out what I am doing 'wrong' it works.

So do you have bumps on the WS too? Or no?

[JustLookin]

I was coming to post that pic, LOL

I gave up on shirt rows, just not my thing I guess.

[mamapez]

I am wondering, could you be "hiding" the wrap by knitting it together with the wrong stitch? Because the purl wrap is the opposite of the knit wrap, you may need to knit the wrap together with the stitch on the other side. :chin

[cassdarrow]

uuuuuuuuh, haven't tried that! Somebody????

[hunnybumm]

Mine look just like Sara's. I just tighten to stitches after I have knit a few rows above the SR, once I do that they are virtually undetectable. It takes a little time but *shrug* until I figure out what I am doing 'wrong' it works.

So do you have bumps on the WS too? Or no?

Not after I pull the stitches tight and distrubte them through out the row. They end up being undetectable, smooth on both sides. But it does take a minute or two to pull the correct stitches tight, then to work them around.

[Perogi]

I've wondered too if the wrap is getting knit in with the wrong stitch - but it is getting knit in on mine with the actual stitch it has wrapped, which should be right.
I'm still having some issues with a loose stitch but I find this time around on Fisherman's isn't nearly as bad as it was on Paton's Classic merino. Also, when all is said and done and they are on my babe you don't see them as much.

I LOVE what short rows accomplish, can never go back, so I'll just keep working away at it.

Laura - your short rows look gorgeous!! This is when I wished we all lived on the same block and could have a major purl-wrap-hiding stitch and b*tch. :LOL

[averymybaby]

I am wondering, could you be "hiding" the wrap by knitting it together with the wrong stitch? Because the purl wrap is the opposite of the knit wrap, you may need to knit the wrap together with the stitch on the other side. :chin


All of my books say to knit it with the stitch it's wrapping, but I'm wondering if you're onto something... since this is round knitting and all the books I have are referring to flat knitting and *purling* that purl wrap. :chin

Someone try it! I'm too chicken :moon

[JustLookin]

I am wondering, could you be "hiding" the wrap by knitting it together with the wrong stitch? Because the purl wrap is the opposite of the knit wrap, you may need to knit the wrap together with the stitch on the other side. :chin


All of my books say to knit it with the stitch it's wrapping, but I'm wondering if you're onto something... since this is round knitting and all the books I have are referring to flat knitting and *purling* that purl wrap. :chin

Someone try it! I'm too chicken :moon

yeah i think you might have a good idea, Ill try a swatch now if DS will let me

[pmcgary]

Actually it won't be a different stitch ...it is just the orientation.

If you were working flat the wrap would be on the same side of the stitch. So, they would both look the same as you got to them except that one would be on purl stitches and you would have to purl them together rather than knit.

And I am not sure how much sense that makes....

[cassdarrow]

if that's the case, what about ktbl?

[pmcgary]

hmmm, that might be the ticket...I think I need to knit a swatch in the round and try this out to see.

[cassdarrow]

Well, go ahead! I am too behind to do one tonight! I'll be right here, waiting for a report!

[JustLookin]

well I did a swatch and it was CRAP!! I tried to knit it with a different stitch but that didnt work so I tried to knit it with its regular stitch and that didnt work either, UGH

since it should be picked up with a purl stitch what would be the best way to pick it up since we are in the round?

[pamelamama]

Let's not give up. If one person can do it seamless-looking, we all should be able to...

[pmcgary]

I just did a swatch and knitted the two together from the back.

I would post a picture but I am embarassed to admit that I managed to twist one of the stitches and it looked really bad....

I will try again tonight. I think I am going to start another pair of pants....

Has anyone knit them for an older child? My 5 year old wants a pair....I am wondering how much yarn it will take.

[pamelamama]

http://woolywonder.com/lookie/wrapissuea.JPG

Ok, A is pointing to a stitch. What do we think that is? Is that the wrap? Or is that a stitch, just what is that? I can't 'see' it.

[pmcgary]

looks like a wrap to me.

[pamelamama]

It seems to be emerging from the 'eye' of anohter stitch, no?

[averymybaby]

Yeah, I see what you're saying Pam - I think that is the wrap.

[cassdarrow]

Ok, just did a wing-it

I discovered the other night when I dropped my wrap, that it is just part of the next stitch to the left. I mean to say, when I dropped the wrap, that's where the yarn went.

So, it seems we have a couple of options. Warp as usual, and when we come back to the purl side wraps, put the wap on the LH needle, and KTBL both the wrap and the stitch.

Secong *gasp* skip the wrap. Whaen you come back, lift the stitch under the next stitch, and place it on the needle, then k2tbl.

Now, I am not doing SRs just his minute, but I did do this second option just now, and it seems to work.

One of you gals actively swatching wanna try it?

[JustLookin]

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL571/2724187/5450808/71259976.jpg

an updated pic from tonight

[averymybaby]

Ok, just did a wing-it

I discovered the other night when I dropped my wrap, that it is just part of the next stitch to the left. I mean to say, when I dropped the wrap, that's where the yarn went.

So, it seems we have a couple of options. Warp as usual, and when we come back to the purl side wraps, put the wap on the LH needle, and KTBL both the wrap and the stitch.

Secong *gasp* skip the wrap. Whaen you come back, lift the stitch under the next stitch, and place it on the needle, then k2tbl.

Now, I am not doing SRs just his minute, but I did do this second option just now, and it seems to work.

One of you gals actively swatching wanna try it?

OK on the second option - lift the stitch under the next one? HUH?! :LOL

[averymybaby]

http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL571/2724187/5450808/71259976.jpg

an updated pic from tonight

what did you try with this? It looks better!!

[cassdarrow]

yes, under the next stitch. So, you put that under stitch back on the needle, and knit it with the current stitch.

[JustLookin]

nothing different, except I used a different size needle than before, but I doubt that changed it that much. Maybe it was just a lucky break

[averymybaby]

nothing different, except I used a different size needle than before, but I doubt that changed it that much. Maybe it was just a lucky break

:mwah


Cass - I tried putting the wrap on the LN and k2tbl but that left a hole, FWIW :chin

[cassdarrow]

Hmm, I'll play with it some. I cast on a soaker tonight that is destined to have short rows. I should get there tomorrow.

[Perogi]

We're getting closer to a solution, I can feel it! :pink

[averymybaby]

We're getting closer to a solution, I can feel it! :pink


I know! can't you just feel the collective brain waves? All these knitting goddesses thinking about it... there will be a meeting of the minds and we shall all figure it out together. :pink

[Lauira]

Cass has figured out a perfect solution.... She is posting now! I can't wait to see these pictures!! C'mon Cass! :mwah

[Perogi]

*waiting anxiously*

:lurk

[cassdarrow]

new thead!
go see!

[cassdarrow]

http://woolywonder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2538&highlight=

[Shifra73]

:talktalk

I have the exact same problem hiding the wraps on the purl side, so going now to see!