Formula for adding short rows to my own pants design? - and HELP! with short rows!

[averymybaby]

So I'm just learning short rows now (after ripping out The Soaker That Wasn't :LOL). I'd really like to add some in the behind on all the pants I do from now on. I'm sort of tired of diaper crack :moon. My question is, how do you know where to insert them in your round? For instance, is there a formula I should be following? On a pair I've just started I've got 72 stitches in my round. Where would I place my markers to do the short rows?

:pink


ETA please see my last post, I'm having trouble with my second wrap on the short rows!

[pmcgary]

I don't know much about pattern design....but in an email with LTK Theresa she said the reason she places them in from the side is b/c some people complained about seeing them from the front.....
Most of the patterns I have seen have the short rows/wrap in 3 or more (5 I think might be common in some of the patterns) stitches from where your side/hip markers would be.
If your beginning of the round is center front or back then your side markers would be at
18 and 54 if you are dividing into equal quarters. Then when you place the short rows just write down how many stitches in from them you did your wrap.

[averymybaby]

you mean how many stitches in from the side markers I did my wrap, right? :chin

[pmcgary]

Yep. Since you were talking about how many stitches you had on the round I thought that is what you were wondering about.

I think where it is done on the length of the body is also up to individual differences. Spaced with 3 or so rows betwwn the short rows I think makes it less noticable. I think if you do them all together you get a "pooch" or "pouch" like effect. Some people do like that I think

[pmcgary]

Yep. Since you were talking about how many stitches you had on the round I thought that is what you were wondering about.

I think where it is done on the length of the body is also up to individual differences. Spaced with 3 or so rows betwwn the short rows I think makes it less noticable. I think if you do them all together you get a "pooch" or "pouch" like effect. Some people do like that I think

[hunnybumm]

I am using the HSY pattern and I started starting my short rows about 8 stitches from the hip markers. On a pair of shorts I made for my DS I added shorts rows every 7 or so rows but I still got a little crack. On some newborn pants I made them every 4 rows and I liked that better but I don't have a nb so I can't test it.

If you aren't familiar with the HSY pattern they adds stitches after the ribbing and they add those stitches to the back so the back and front "flaps" aren't equal. I added the short rows myself, they aren't in the pattern. So where you start your short rows would depend on how your pattern was set up. But I definitly agree that I don't like the short rows to go in front of the hip line, it causes a sort of looseness arould the thighs that sort of pouches out (so technical, I know!). Hope that makes sence!

[Lauira]

I like lots and lots of short rows! I just divide the stitches in half and place markers on the hips. My first row is placed one stitch inside the markers (so the stitch just before the marker is the one that is wrapped) and just below the bottom of the waistband. Then I do short rows every 2 or three rows - whatever strikes my fancy! Each row I move in one stitch from the last one. I just do them until I feel like stopping. Pretty scientific, eh? LOL

Here is what this looks like on a bum:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7066.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/shortrows2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/shortrows1.jpg

And on a pair in progress so shaped funny (but you can see how it makes the back much longer):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_7123.jpg

The other way to do them is like LTK - she does them all in one section which looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/ljalter/IMG_6628.jpg

See the clump of them versus them all spread out?

I hope that helps!

[averymybaby]

LAURA!!!! :mwah :mwah you are such a big help!! that totally did it for me. THANKS! :mwah Laura is my knitting hero :D :D :lol:

So what's the yarn you're working with now? I must have it. :) :faint

[averymybaby]

OK, I thought I had it down, but the second wrap is driving me nuts! I can make the wrap at my first marker hidden, but the one where I turn around to knit back (after purling the short row) always leaves a hole! Can someone walk me through how to wrap that second stitch on the end of the purled short row? I do it like the first one, leaving the yarn in back to knit, but it still leaves a hole, even when I come back on the next round and try to hide the wrap.

:emb

[Lauira]

Well first - the unfinished pants are in the merino blend from Cass at Holy Sheep. SOOOOOOOOOO soft and nice! That is the Iris colorway.

And next...don't panic...we can figure it out. So it is the wrapping (not the hiding) you are having trouble with? It is trickier to hide the second one, so you may be wrapping right but the hiding is messing you up. To wrap, you just slip the next stitch, pass the yarn back between the needles, move the stitch back, turn your work around and move the yarn for knitting postion. Now when you come back around, you are pretty much going to have to jam your needle up under that wrap to hide it. You also drop it off the needle like that first wrap that is easy to hide.

Okay...let me know if this is helping before I ramble any further...

[averymybaby]

I think you're right - it's hiding that second wrap that I can't figure out. I do think I'm wrapping it right - but when I come back to knit it again and need to hide it, i end up with a stretched out stitch and a big ol' hole! :pezfrog

So any tips for hiding that second wrap? The Knitting At Noon video helped me learn how to do the first one, but she only does it on one that first side... I got that one to be virtually indetectable but this second one is just not working as of yet.

Thanks for your help Laura :mwah

[ravingcutie]

Here's how I have to hide that 2nd wrap:
Place BOTH loops on my left needle,

Pull the yarn through the first loop (actual stitch), slide it off and then pull that same loop through the wrap.

If I try to jam my needle through both it always seems to show - especially on bulky yarns.

This way it achieves the same thing, but in two steps versus one.

[pamelamama]

I posted this in the wonderpants class a few days ago, fwiw:

Last night I got DH to make a few movies of me with the short row wraps while he was watching old episodes of the Sopranos. Well, the clips came out pretty dark and there's lots of cursing in the background and there's Eli asking for Moonie (milk) so if this does you any good I'll be surprised. xoox pam

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/1.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/2.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/3.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/4.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/5.avi

[ravingcutie]

and there's lots of cursing in the background.....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mamapez]

My media player tells me 4.avi is corrupted... The others look great!

[pmcgary]

I think it is 4 that my computer said was "invalid" or some such thing.

[averymybaby]

I posted this in the wonderpants class a few days ago, fwiw:

Last night I got DH to make a few movies of me with the short row wraps while he was watching old episodes of the Sopranos. Well, the clips came out pretty dark and there's lots of cursing in the background and there's Eli asking for Moonie (milk) so if this does you any good I'll be surprised. xoox pam

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/1.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/2.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/3.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/4.avi

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/5.avi


Yeah 4 doesn't play. Eli is so cute though :D :D

Do you have any where you're hiding the wrap on the other side?


ETA Laura, on the pants in progress it looks like the beginning of your round is on one of the hips. How did you space your markers and rows so that the start of the round ends up on a hip instead of smack dab in the front of the pants??

[pmcgary]

I think four is the one I need to see!

[pamelamama]

I'll fix it ...

[pamelamama]

Ok, Im uploading that clip again right now, so it should be good in a couple of seconds. :thumb

[averymybaby]

:chin is there anyway to slow down a quicktime movie? you are so fast, Pam!! :LOL

[pmcgary]

On mine I have a little slide bar across the bottom - like a volume button and I can control the rate of a replay with that. (fun to make her go forwards and backwards.)

[Lauira]

Hmmm, okay...so video #5 is the offending wrap, and I do it exaclty like Pam! LOL But if I do it that loose I get a hole...Pam - can you post a pic of a wrap on that side sometime? I literally do it just like you do in the same motions. But then, I knit a lot tighter overall, so that must be why I get a hole - since a loose wrap would be a different tension than the rest of my knitting, it shows all funky. I must knit tight - I am anal. LOL Phew - good to know I do that right! I don't have my sound on, but I will play it later with sound so I can experience the cuteness! :) Thanks for the vids - I have been meaning to do that for a while now!

Julia - yes, the one of the hip markers is at the start of the round. That way just makes sense to me. :) Do you normally do it so the join is in the front? Doing it the other way draws less attention to the join, also - in case it isn't perfect. So do you knit tightly? I think I read that you do (where was that?). If you do, make sure your wrap is tight. I only avoid a hole if my wrap is tight and it is almost tough to get my needle up under it to hide it. KWIM? And I find that with heavier than worsted, the wrap is pretty well hidden. With worsted it is more noticeable for me.

[pamelamama]

More stuff:

working the knit side wrap:
http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/wrapmovie1.avi

working the purl side wrap (out of focus):
http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/wrapmovie3.avi

:brow
find my knit side wraps??
http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/findmywrap.jpg

find my purl side wraps??

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/shortrowwraps/findmypurlwraps.jpg

[pamelamama]

http://www.dnt-inc.com/barhtmls/knit/shortrows.html

[pmcgary]

This one is really good. Very detailed....AND yipee....I have been doing them right. (though I did note on my current pants I twisted one of the stitches. I am not going back to fix.)

[averymybaby]

:emb Pam I knit nothing like the way you do.. so it's really hard for me to understand what you're doing :goodgrief but I really appreciate you adding all those video links. They do help somewhat but I hold the yarn in my other hand and move my needles completely differently so it's kind of like trying to read greek :LOL

But I think I see you slipping the stitch through the wrap sort of like a bind off? I may have figured out how to get them minimized by knitting the wrap and the stitch together. I can do the "bind off" thing with the first one but the second wrap (the return wrap where I turn and knit back) is SO tight there's no way I could slip it over the stitch. Still can't figure out why that one is so tight either! Wierd. :yawn

[averymybaby]

Julia - yes, the one of the hip markers is at the start of the round. That way just makes sense to me. :) Do you normally do it so the join is in the front? Doing it the other way draws less attention to the join, also - in case it isn't perfect. So do you knit tightly? I think I read that you do (where was that?). If you do, make sure your wrap is tight. I only avoid a hole if my wrap is tight and it is almost tough to get my needle up under it to hide it. KWIM? And I find that with heavier than worsted, the wrap is pretty well hidden. With worsted it is more noticeable for me.

Well I thought I knit tight, but I'm still ending up with uneven tension on the wraps. But I think I'm getting there. I had been doing it so that my join was in the back. I think I like it better your way :LOL so I just tried it.. and yeah, it's going to look better. I am making my wraps tight but it's sort of hard on that return wrap (see above) because it's SO tight I can barely do anything with it, let alone slip that over a stitch - it physically won't work. And I'm ending up with some loose yarn on the purl side on those wraps but it's not really showing on the knit side. :moon

Sigh. I should post a close up pic of what I'm getting for you experts to analyze.. it's no where near your skill levels, Laura and Pam, but at least I've made it this far without holes, the THIRD TIME I've started these silly pants :faint :faint

[Lauira]

Thanks Pam! Geez...I have been worrying about nothing! I thought I couldn't be doing it right, but really the visibility thing is me - I asked my whole family and they all thought I was nutty when they looked at it. It is just that I know where to look. KWIM? Thank you SO much for the help!

Julia - you poor thing. You have much more patience than I do! Mine is tight too, but I find I just get my tip up there (not the whole needle) and that is all I need. I knit like you do (Cass called me a "thrower" when I showed her a video LOL), so I will try to take one for you and maybe that will be easier to see. Don't let anyone tell you it is slower. Hahaha! I don't have a SR project going, but I bet I can knit a swatch.

[averymybaby]

Julia - you poor thing. You have much more patience than I do! Mine is tight too, but I find I just get my tip up there (not the whole needle) and that is all I need. I knit like you do (Cass called me a "thrower" when I showed her a video LOL), so I will try to take one for you and maybe that will be easier to see. Don't let anyone tell you it is slower. Hahaha! I don't have a SR project going, but I bet I can knit a swatch.


So you get the tip up in the wrap and then knit it with the stitch or pull it over the stitch like a bind off? Yeah my knitting is my own devised version.. I wonder if it's any particular method? LOL... FWIW I can't see your wraps on the iris pants at all. I stared at it for a long time. :LOL Mine sort of look like bigger stitches. You can see them but they're not glaring. I really need to get the camera going here... :chin

[pamelamama]

So does that mean you found my wraps or not? :pink

[averymybaby]

So does that mean you found my wraps or not? :pink


No of course not! :LOL

OK, P-L-E-A-S-E don't make fun of my crappy short rows? I'm so embarrassed to post these pictures but I really really want to get better at this. The first wraps (the ones I do then flip and purl) are turning out ok and are virtually indetectable. But the return wraps (where I flip and knit back) are awful. They are stretched out and still leave a big hole. I'm doing everything with the wrap right - this is the one that is SO tight I can barely get my needle in. I'll post what I'm getting here, and if anyone can tell me what I'm doing wrong or if you have any ideas PLEASE post away, I'd really like to improve:

You can totally see the wraps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/julialroberts/c6b2249d.jpg

and (different angle):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/julialroberts/b1421f53.jpg

see how loose it is on the purl side?! What's UP with that?!!! Ugh!! :goodgrief

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/julialroberts/9a7299fb.jpg

[pamelamama]

in the one place where i see the short rows, it is because you knit the wrap in front of your stitch, I think. It should be in the back of your stitch. Fiddle with it so it overlaps properly. You may have them wrong on the needle and need to reverse them to get them to hide.

i have a lovely illustration.

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/wraps.JPG

The big green thing represents the needle going to knit into the two stitches, the pink is the wrap and the blue is the stitch. the overlap shows how they should wind up once knit. One on top of the other.

[averymybaby]

in the one place where i see the short rows, it is because you knit the wrap in front of your stitch, I think. It should be in the back of your stitch. Fiddle with it so it overlaps properly. You may have them wrong on the needle and need to reverse them to get them to hide.

i have a lovely illustration.

http://woolywonder.com/classpages/wraps.JPG

The big green thing represents the needle going to knit into the two stitches, the pink is the wrap and the blue is the stitch. the overlap shows how they should wind up once knit. One on top of the other.


:mwah

That is quite a lovely illustration :D So if I put my stitch on the needle first then my wrap, then what do I do? I have been knitting them together like a K2Tog. Wrong?

[radish]

:lurk

[Lisadeanne]

My wraps look like Julias. I have just watched your videos and I seem to be doing the same thing, but mine are also still visible on the purl side. Do I insert the needle into the wrap first, and if so do I come at it from the front of the stitch, or behind?

[pamelamama]

:mwah

That is quite a lovely illustration :D So if I put my stitch on the needle first then my wrap, then what do I do? I have been knitting them together like a K2Tog. Wrong?

Well how are the stitches lined up when you do this? are they stacked, like in the photo?

[averymybaby]

Well how are the stitches lined up when you do this? are they stacked, like in the photo?


Yep, they look like the illustration.

[pamelamama]

Then it sounds good to me.